Thunder Bluff
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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Okay, so I was running a Dungeon not too long ago and a couple of people complained a bit about me. And it wasn't bashing me or anything. And it was not that I was hindering the group or anything like that. It was that I was rolling on Leather Gear and that I was stacking Agility. I am at level 41, this happened at level 40. I'm mostly posting this to ask if I should be stacking agi, if rolling on Leather still is fine for a 40+ Shaman, and lastly the damage I should be doing relatively to other DPS classes.

I've been stacking Agi this entire time as my build is 2h enhancement. I'm trying to get a higher crit chance to proc flurry and to get more chances to proc WF Weapon.

This whole question came up when the rogue in this group complained that I rolled on a leather piece of gear, I forget the specific piece. But I rolled on 3 Leather pieces during the run. All but one of which had higher agi than I already had, the one that didn't had a lot of Stam, Str, and one less Agi than what I was currently wearing. A rogue said that I should be rolling on Mail not Leather now that I am at 40. So, I told them that I was stacking agi and that was why I was rolling on this leather gear. This prompts some else to point out that me stacking agi hasn't done anything for my damage as I was third on the damage meters. I say well, I am an Enhancement Shaman my DPS isn't going to be that good and that I am better suited for utility (WF Totem and other totems) and the such. And afterwards I was made fun of for saying that my spec for dungeon enviroments is more utility based than for pure damage.

This encounter made me think if I was doing things in a decent manner. I am new to WoW and Classic at that, so I am learning quite a bit still. But I had thought Shaman DPS was not really that good in PvE and that agi stacking was the way to go for 2h Enhancement Spec.

Shaman Enhancement
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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Sounds like those folks were being a bit ridiculous.

So going all in on agility is fine, but it's I'm sure a guide somewhere will illuminate how much STR you should trade for AGI.

Also don't worry about rolling on the leather too much. People can be stuck in the thing that's been in retail since like MoP where you are essentially penalized as, say, a druid wearing cloth. You get a bonus for wearing all leather gear.

But in vanilla/classic, if you're not tanking, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Go for the best stats. For a Paladin healer, some of his best gear he can get is cloth. And if priests are uncomfortable about it they should learn to live w/ it. It doesn't take a genius to realize that raw stats and power is better than an extra 20 armor on your pants from wearing exclusively the max armor level available to your class.

   CallMeDara
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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CallMeDara wrote:
5 months ago
But I had thought Shaman DPS was not really that good in PvE and that agi stacking was the way to go for 2h Enhancement Spec.
Firstly, don't let others tell you how to play the game, especially not Classic. We've grown and improved a great deal since 2004, there is room for all types of flavours/options with great potential attached to them, if you put in the effort to make it work. Naturally, if you don't put in the work don't expect great results. Generally, a raid leader will appreciate your competence as a raider much more than your spec.

I suggest watching Holderhek's videos on youtube, he goes in-depth on enh shaman.

Feel free to contact me, if you have more questions.

   CallMeDara
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Warrior Fury
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
5 months ago
Generally, a raid leader will appreciate your competence as a raider much more than your spec.
Part of playing competently is choosing the spec that serves your team best and putting your team before yourself. Another key part of competence is having the experience, knowledge and foresight to choose a competitive spec to begin with. For example, anyone who rolls up to a raiding guild looking to tank as an enhancement shaman is probably an incompetent buffoon.

To your question OP, any gear pre 60 doesnt really matter and if anyone is complaining about your rolls, they are probably wont be part of the raiding crowd anyhow so you wont need to foster relationships with them. Just take what you need to max your leveling and get into raiding asap.

   CallMeDara
g0bledyg00k wrote:
4 months ago
Never making a single investment again until I 100% know it pays off.
2000 IQ :wink:
Burning Steppes
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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With the armor type, I've found it beneficial to just be up front. I main a warrior, and though that typically means I'm tanking when I'm in dungeons, I let the hunters and rogues know that I primarily dps in raid. So if a pre-raid BiS items drops, I'm going to roll (Savage Glad Chain, Truestrike Shoulders, Hand of Justice, etc). If it's an upgrade but not bis, I'll generally ask the leather/mail wearer if they needed it, and I only roll if they don't.

Armor type only matters if you're being hit, and most understand that. So far most have been fine with it when I state intentions up front. One person left group, but before we started the dungeon, so no big deal.

   CallMeDara
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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Alot of pre raid bis for most classes are "armor type" below them. Alot of healers such as Shamans, Druids often use Cloth for instance.

So don't worry about needing on items. Also you should go for STR first and agility second. Unlike druids where agility gives 1 ap per agility, you get none as enhancement. Crit is nice but it won't make up for the overall damage loss you will make by not having strength.

   CallMeDara
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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Stfuppercut wrote:
5 months ago
Part of playing competently is choosing the spec that serves your team best and putting your team before yourself. Another key part of competence is having the experience, knowledge and foresight to choose a competitive spec to begin with. For example, anyone who rolls up to a raiding guild looking to tank as an enhancement shaman is probably an incompetent buffoon.

To your question OP, any gear pre 60 doesnt really matter and if anyone is complaining about your rolls, they are probably wont be part of the raiding crowd anyhow so you wont need to foster relationships with them. Just take what you need to max your leveling and get into raiding asap.
Yes, competence: communicate, show up on time, listen, etc... stuff that will trump going a cookie cutter spec and not following any of the aforementioned.

I can't comment on the Shaman Tank thing without sounding elitist. (I clearly see you have never read anything I wrote...)

We're not even talking about the number of off-meta spec players in the raid, you seem to be opposed to a single person in the raid doing it, yikes.

The game isn't that hard, your raid won't collapse because of a single person's spec. If it does you have a bigger problem than someone going the wrong spec or you're playing in a very casual/new guild, which in that case I understand (stay with the norm).

Your point of view is quite unique, I have never seen it from years of raiding and it contradicts countless convos/data. Please step out to literally any class community Discord-forum, they'll say the same as I do. You can use the search function. Plenty of insightful/veteran/guide people who share the same thoughts as I do.

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Thunder Bluff
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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Caperfin wrote:
5 months ago
CallMeDara wrote:
5 months ago
But I had thought Shaman DPS was not really that good in PvE and that agi stacking was the way to go for 2h Enhancement Spec.
Firstly, don't let others tell you how to play the game, especially not Classic. We've grown and improved a great deal since 2004, there is room for all types of flavours/options with great potential attached to them, if you put in the effort to make it work. Naturally, if you don't put in the work don't expect great results. Generally, a raid leader will appreciate your competence as a raider much more than your spec.

I suggest watching Holderhek's videos on youtube, he goes in-depth on enh shaman.

Feel free to contact me, if you have more questions.


Thanks for the response!

I've just read your guide on Ele Shaman PvP! And because of it I've looked into the spec and find it very intriguing! It also reaffirmed my decision on Shaman!

I'd love to play some Elemental spec sometime soon. Right now I am in full Enh and at level 46. I also have no int gear or anything really caster related, all my gear is focused on Enh (Str/Agi/Stam focus). I guess what I am trying to ask is if you would think it'd be a waste to grind out some better Ele gear/buy some on the AH or would it be a waste of time and money and just wait until I hit 60 to switch over at this point?

And thanks to this thread, I've definitely found a sweeter spot between balancing Agi and Str. My DPS has definitely improved relatively in dungeon runs, too!

Arathi Basin
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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CallMeDara wrote:
5 months ago
Caperfin wrote:
5 months ago
CallMeDara wrote:
5 months ago
But I had thought Shaman DPS was not really that good in PvE and that agi stacking was the way to go for 2h Enhancement Spec.
Firstly, don't let others tell you how to play the game, especially not Classic. We've grown and improved a great deal since 2004, there is room for all types of flavours/options with great potential attached to them, if you put in the effort to make it work. Naturally, if you don't put in the work don't expect great results. Generally, a raid leader will appreciate your competence as a raider much more than your spec.

I suggest watching Holderhek's videos on youtube, he goes in-depth on enh shaman.

Feel free to contact me, if you have more questions.


Thanks for the response!

I've just read your guide on Ele Shaman PvP! And because of it I've looked into the spec and find it very intriguing! It also reaffirmed my decision on Shaman!

I'd love to play some Elemental spec sometime soon. Right now I am in full Enh and at level 46. I also have no int gear or anything really caster related, all my gear is focused on Enh (Str/Agi/Stam focus). I guess what I am trying to ask is if you would think it'd be a waste to grind out some better Ele gear/buy some on the AH or would it be a waste of time and money and just wait until I hit 60 to switch over at this point?

And thanks to this thread, I've definitely found a sweeter spot between balancing Agi and Str. My DPS has definitely improved relatively in dungeon runs, too!
Ele shamans start to get really fun and quite fast at 40 because that's when you get the 1s lower cast time on Chain lightning and Lightning bolt. You should be able to buy a full intellect set by now on AH for cheap. I highly recommend Elemental at 40+!

Altaholic playing the following:
Ten Storms EU Alliance
Finnigan - Dwarf Hunter Lvl 30
Portalmaster - Gnome Mage Lvl 19
Shaelur - Dwarf Paladin Lvl 22
Shaelus - Night Elf Druid Lvl 50
Thunder Bluff
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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Erik wrote:
5 months ago
CallMeDara wrote:
5 months ago
Caperfin wrote:
5 months ago
CallMeDara wrote:
5 months ago
But I had thought Shaman DPS was not really that good in PvE and that agi stacking was the way to go for 2h Enhancement Spec.
Firstly, don't let others tell you how to play the game, especially not Classic. We've grown and improved a great deal since 2004, there is room for all types of flavours/options with great potential attached to them, if you put in the effort to make it work. Naturally, if you don't put in the work don't expect great results. Generally, a raid leader will appreciate your competence as a raider much more than your spec.

I suggest watching Holderhek's videos on youtube, he goes in-depth on enh shaman.

Feel free to contact me, if you have more questions.


Thanks for the response!

I've just read your guide on Ele Shaman PvP! And because of it I've looked into the spec and find it very intriguing! It also reaffirmed my decision on Shaman!

I'd love to play some Elemental spec sometime soon. Right now I am in full Enh and at level 46. I also have no int gear or anything really caster related, all my gear is focused on Enh (Str/Agi/Stam focus). I guess what I am trying to ask is if you would think it'd be a waste to grind out some better Ele gear/buy some on the AH or would it be a waste of time and money and just wait until I hit 60 to switch over at this point?

And thanks to this thread, I've definitely found a sweeter spot between balancing Agi and Str. My DPS has definitely improved relatively in dungeon runs, too!
Ele shamans start to get really fun and quite fast at 40 because that's when you get the 1s lower cast time on Chain lightning and Lightning bolt. You should be able to buy a full intellect set by now on AH for cheap. I highly recommend Elemental at 40+!
I wish I could buy a full set! I keep giving my money away to those trying to buy a mount that are 40+ lol! (I already bought a mount)

I guess I could just save up.

Arathi Basin
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5 months ago (1.13.2)
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I guess I could just save up.
I don't think you need to "save". I was enhancement all the way to 38 ish then I respecced to Elemental.

I got full Intellect/sta gear for around 8g total, where as Wep+shield was like half of that. So 4g for armor and 4g for weapons.

This was on a medium/high server.

If you play on high/full and depending on the economy you can get it cheaper. Also don't be afraid to ask guildies if they have
anything laying around or keep an eye out for ele loot. I got https://classic.wowhead.com/item=13128/high-bergg-helm from a guildmate
for 30c (post fee).

   CallMeDara
Altaholic playing the following:
Ten Storms EU Alliance
Finnigan - Dwarf Hunter Lvl 30
Portalmaster - Gnome Mage Lvl 19
Shaelur - Dwarf Paladin Lvl 22
Shaelus - Night Elf Druid Lvl 50
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